Is Moo now using CreditNew???

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Message boards : Number crunching : Is Moo now using CreditNew???
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Fire$torm [BlackOps]
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Message 1250 - Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 18:59:53 UTC
Last modified: 26 Oct 2011, 19:01:33 UTC

I saw the RSS news feed of "MOO Wrapper BOINC Server code updated"

Like the title asks, is CreditNew imployed with this itteration of the code?

If this is the case then this is very unfortunate as I will have to detach from this project. Aqua@Home ended ties with BOINC from the blowback they received over this very issue.

So be prepared for some really nasty feedback if you cannot find a way around CreditNew.

Sorry if I have offended you but DA's senseless desire for cross-project & cross-hardware parity is a personal affront to me considering all the time, energy & money I have invested in this hobby. There are many others within the BOINC Community that feel as I do. In the end many projects will suffer because DA has his head stuck way up his (fill in blank).


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Profile Crazybob.SETI.USA [TopGun]
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Message 1251 - Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 19:14:17 UTC

I agree. I moved from AQUA when they implemented that junk. Please do your best to not allow that code to run here. I will also move my machines if this is implemented. As F$ said, to much time, money and agravation tied up in this stuff.
If your not crunching with us, what do you do with your free time?
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John Clark

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Message 1252 - Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 19:47:10 UTC
Last modified: 26 Oct 2011, 20:08:51 UTC

No effects noticed at this time, and credit given not changed (as far as I can tell).
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David A. Dutton [TopGun]

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Message 1253 - Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 21:50:11 UTC - in response to Message 1252.  
Last modified: 26 Oct 2011, 21:51:20 UTC

Projects can always rewrite his DA's "improved" creditnew code. TBH if people can code WUs to work on linux, windows, OS x, and various other OSes. Project programmers should easily be able to change the math in his creditnew code back to the old style or design their own credit/award system

Of course this assumes a project compiles the server vs getting it precompiled or in a VM file.

I know if I ever ran a boinc project, the FIRST thing I would do is strip out is DA's CreditNew system.
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Profile Teemu Mannermaa
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Message 1254 - Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 22:26:46 UTC

Hi,

No, I didn't change credit systems. It's still static 8.5 BOINC credits for one D.net stat units in the completed work. I would have mention that as a big change if I would have done it. :)

There's actually four credit systems* in the BOINC validator code by default. First is that dynamic scheme for "device neutrality", second one is to get credit from WU (which is what we use), third is to grant no credit (instead trickle calls can grant credit) during validation and fourth is credit based on runtime (a new one implemented recently by DA for the cases where CreditNew doesn't work well).

I did try the CreditNew when I started Moo and it was giving so strange results that I we had to switch to this static scheme. With the new code, the credit that CreditNew would have granted is actually stored in the "claimed credit" field of a result but unfortunately that's not shown by default for on the normal interface. I could change that if people want to compare the credit results in the hope that the new scheme would stabilize eventually. :)

-w

*Refer to http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/browser/trunk/boinc/sched/validator.cpp#L27 for all the dirty details.
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David A. Dutton [TopGun]

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Message 1257 - Posted: 27 Oct 2011, 3:15:19 UTC - in response to Message 1254.  
Last modified: 27 Oct 2011, 3:20:47 UTC

Thanks! I'm glad to hear it! :) From what I've been hearing is that soon DA is going to remove all the credit options and only leave CreditNew (the device neutrality garbage). This is what a lot of people are concerned about. I hope he doesn't do that as it will really hurt boinc projects.

IMO it doesn't matter if people crunch for science, for the glory (credit chasers), or a combo of both. In any case, scientific, etc contributions are being made, and *forcing* only 1 credit system on projects will turn a lot of people away which would be a loss to the projects around the world.

IMO if 2, identical WUs were to generate.. let's say 5,000 credits after running for 24hrs (24 hrs of CPU time) on a 2.x Ghz machine.. that same WU should still grant 5000 credits if it took only 10hrs to run on an i7 cranked up to 5+Ghz. that's why I do not like the new credit system DA proposed. It's like he's penalizing people for using fast machines, and that's a quick way to turn people off projects.

I must say, since you are an admin, I REALLY admire the fact MOO can use more than 1 nvidia GPU at once. It's rare to see boinc projects that can use multi CPU or GPU cores per WU.
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Profile Teemu Mannermaa
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Message 1275 - Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 20:43:13 UTC - in response to Message 1257.  

Thanks! I'm glad to hear it! :) From what I've been hearing is that soon DA is going to remove all the credit options and only leave CreditNew (the device neutrality garbage). This is what a lot of people are concerned about. I hope he doesn't do that as it will really hurt boinc projects.


I highly doubt that since he has just added few new credit systems but obviously I can't say what DA's ultimate goals are. But anyway, if bad things happen with the server code, projects can just fork it so I wouldn't worry too much. :)

(Forking would be a bad thing for many reasons but it's still a possibility if everything else fails.)

I must say, since you are an admin, I REALLY admire the fact MOO can use more than 1 nvidia GPU at once. It's rare to see boinc projects that can use multi CPU or GPU cores per WU.


You'd need to thank our upstream, distributed.net, coders for that feature. :)

Actually, most crunchers have been annoyed by that feature since it can't be made optional and there are some valid scenarios where that would desirable. :/

-w
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mikey
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Message 1281 - Posted: 29 Oct 2011, 13:54:00 UTC - in response to Message 1275.  

Thanks! I'm glad to hear it! :) From what I've been hearing is that soon DA is going to remove all the credit options and only leave CreditNew (the device neutrality garbage). This is what a lot of people are concerned about. I hope he doesn't do that as it will really hurt boinc projects.


I highly doubt that since he has just added few new credit systems but obviously I can't say what DA's ultimate goals are. But anyway, if bad things happen with the server code, projects can just fork it so I wouldn't worry too much. :)

(Forking would be a bad thing for many reasons but it's still a possibility if everything else fails.)

I must say, since you are an admin, I REALLY admire the fact MOO can use more than 1 nvidia GPU at once. It's rare to see boinc projects that can use multi CPU or GPU cores per WU.


You'd need to thank our upstream, distributed.net, coders for that feature. :)

Actually, most crunchers have been annoyed by that feature since it can't be made optional and there are some valid scenarios where that would desirable. :/

-w


We discussed elsewhere the ability to do a double install of Boinc, in different directories, and then using some Boinc options only let each version of Boinc use 1gpu. It is cumbersome and probably painful at times but it does work. But I too appreciate the ability to use all gpu's on one workunit!
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Message boards : Number crunching : Is Moo now using CreditNew???


 
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