Switched to granting static credit

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Profile Teemu Mannermaa
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Message 266 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 17:39:16 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2011, 5:23:29 UTC

Hi,

Due to numerous inconsistencies in the BOINC credit calculation, I've switched to granting static amount of credit based on stat units in a wu. Stat units in a particular wu is the last number in its name (second to last in a task name) and measures the relative amount of work in a wu.

At the moment we are giving 5cr per stat unit, which gives a little over 2kcr per current WU size. (For example, a standardish wu with 448 stat units gives 2240cr) We probably switch to 7cr eventually, which gives about 3kcr per current WU size (same 448 now gives 3136cr regardless of how long it took).

Partial result crediting works the same way it used to.

-w
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Profile [AF>EDLS] Polynesia
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Message 269 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 18:44:00 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2011, 19:00:50 UTC

It's gonna hurt ....

I spend around 7000 to 2200 around ...

Edit : still a fair bit when we see that the PPS project sieve yoyo@home I 4533 for 15 minutes while computing is the calculation takes almost 4000 seconds around my house ....

I understand for ATI cards that calculate dry in about 1000 a unit but for cards that calculate dry in around 4000 ...

For fairness I understand both those for ATIs that are credited less ....

Config : i7 860 2.8ghz, 8g ram, boinc : 6.12.26, GPU : GTX 470 Zotac Amp Edition 1280 mo DDR5
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kashi

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Message 270 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 19:05:50 UTC

DNETC@HOME granted 8.05 credits per stats unit.
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Message 271 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 20:45:21 UTC

If you're going to reduce the credits by a factor of 4 (for my linux box), I'd really prefer to go without them being fixed.
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Joe

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Message 272 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 20:58:33 UTC

Thats very bad...
At first for 723.07sec got 7,940.81 points and now
for 826.35sec only 2,400.00 points...
that hurts....
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Dan

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Message 273 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:22:42 UTC

Bye Moo! This change is the final nail in Moo's coffin. The credits are not worth it. Milkyway and Collatz are much better. I've read a lot of people today who are dropping Moo. You never even got close to DNet on credits. Why don't you give it up and let someone who wants to get people to do the work.

MOO SUCKS!
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Message 274 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:23:39 UTC

The problem before that change was:
some people with cheap GPUs were giving the same credits as the other ones with GPUs much more faster.
The CPU time should not be a factor for credits.
The faster you can complete the stats units, more credits you will get.

That change is not fair for people having lower GPUs, but it's fair for people with faster GPUs (5870, 5970, 6950, etc)

We'll see how it goes, but (like Teemu said) we already consider increasing more then 5 credits per stat units.

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Message 275 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 274.  

The problem before that change was:
some people with cheap GPUs were giving the same credits as the other ones with GPUs much more faster.
The CPU time should not be a factor for credits.
The faster you can complete the stats units, more credits you will get.

That change is not fair for people having lower GPUs, but it's fair for people with faster GPUs (5870, 5970, 6950, etc)

We'll see how it goes, but (like Teemu said) we already consider increasing more then 5 credits per stat units.


If you don't want CUDA crunchers around, why bother creating the app? This won't even come close to competing with PG.
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vaio [The Lone Gunman]

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Message 276 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:36:59 UTC

"The faster you can complete the stats units, more credits you will get."

Can't see what's supposed to be wrong with that.

Faster rigs=more credit.

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

Or do we all upgrade for nowt?

Dunno what all the fuss is about.

My only issue to date has been the conpletely randon timing/crediting.
EG....My 5770 outproducing my 5970.....and cf 5830's crawling along.

Weird but makes things entertaining.
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Message 277 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:37:33 UTC

DNETC@HOME granted 8.05 credits per stats unit !!! Let Moo also guarantees 8.05.
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Dan

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Message 278 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:40:31 UTC - in response to Message 274.  
Last modified: 12 May 2011, 22:34:42 UTC

What! I'm running dual 5870s. 2240 CR for 10 minutes of my cards time is less than other ATI projects and 1/4 of the old DNET.

I noticed your work units out have dropped by 1/3 from this time yesterday. People let you use their hardware for credits.
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Message 279 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:42:21 UTC - in response to Message 275.  

The problem before that change was:
some people with cheap GPUs were giving the same credits as the other ones with GPUs much more faster.
The CPU time should not be a factor for credits.
The faster you can complete the stats units, more credits you will get.

That change is not fair for people having lower GPUs, but it's fair for people with faster GPUs (5870, 5970, 6950, etc)

We'll see how it goes, but (like Teemu said) we already consider increasing more then 5 credits per stat units.


If you don't want CUDA crunchers around, why bother creating the app? This won't even come close to competing with PG.


Some GPUs are better at some tasks, I don't think its fair to say "for CUDA, a different rule apply", let's apply the same rule for everyone.

By the way, we did not "create" the CUDA app, we just wrap it. There's still a lot of credits given to CUDA vs a CPU.
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Message 280 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:51:09 UTC - in response to Message 278.  

What! I'm running dual 5870s. 2240 CR for 10 minutes of my cards time is less than other ATI projects and 1/4 of the old DNET.

I noticed your work units out have dropped by 1/3 from this time yesterday. People let you use their hardware for credits. If you can't compete with other ATI projects than give it up. And definitely don't act like your doing us a favor if you can't keep up with DNET.



I see you are running:
[May 12 20:27:36 UTC] RC5-72: Summary: 7 packets (448.00 stats units)
                      0.00:10:38.29 - [3,014.51 Mkeys/s]

which is correct.

2240*6*24=322560 credit per day.
This is about the same as Milkyway and more then collatz.

We will probably increase it just a little bit.


P.S. Dan, we are really respectful in here, if you could do the same, this will make a better place for everyone.
Thanks for understanding.
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Message 281 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 21:52:15 UTC - in response to Message 274.  

The problem before that change was:
some people with cheap GPUs were giving the same credits as the other ones with GPUs much more faster.
The CPU time should not be a factor for credits.
The faster you can complete the stats units, more credits you will get.

That change is not fair for people having lower GPUs, but it's fair for people with faster GPUs (5870, 5970, 6950, etc)

We'll see how it goes, but (like Teemu said) we already consider increasing more then 5 credits per stat units.


My HD6970 is fast and expensive (to me)but i'm punished too....
http://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=524&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=
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Dan

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Message 282 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 22:28:32 UTC - in response to Message 280.  

Actually if you look at thoughput, Milkyway and Collatz are getting me 2.3 credits per wall clock second per GPU. From Moo I get 1.9. From DNET as was said I'd 8
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Message 283 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 22:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 281.  
Last modified: 12 May 2011, 22:44:53 UTC

Yep, being penalized for having fairly new, fairly top of the line hardware, doesn't sit well.
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Message 284 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 22:49:27 UTC - in response to Message 280.  

A warning about credit drop would have been nice

I just reinstalled the ATIs that were crunching DNETC on 2 boxes.
Then I looked at the results & found it dropped to half I was getting with NVIDIA @ PG.
Now I got to put the NVs back :(
What a waste in time

and the project is not even on BoincStats yet
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Message 285 - Posted: 12 May 2011, 23:10:37 UTC

It's up to Teemu to increase that credit.
But since we see many users aren't happy, we'll maybe put 8 back (and not 8.05).
That will make everyone happy.


btw, the reason why this projet isnt in boincstats yet, isnt our fault. We got the confirmation days ago (by Willy) that Moo! Wrapper will be added to boincstats.
He has some problem with his servers and we'll soon be in there.
We're already in Free-DC stats thought.
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Message 286 - Posted: 13 May 2011, 0:51:31 UTC

Well if the calculations are correct, a WU takes an average of 9.5 minutes if all is going well on the computer.
There are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day.
which is around 150 WUs per day on a dual card machine.
This leaves 375,000 points per day per dual card ATI 5870 machine.

From memory Collatz gave just under this amount and Milkyway is giving about the same amount (to me anyway).

I am quite a ways further back on PG as it suits the Nvidia cards much better (up to 500,000 points on a single Nvidia 570/580 card).

So yes it is a drop but it is still pretty darn good credits for a small amount of time per WU (unless you have the ones taking 2 hours like my single 5870 card use to).

I wont knock an increase back but I can handle the current credit amounts, my RAC is already dropping fast so I will be interested in what it stabilises at.

Conan.
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Message 287 - Posted: 13 May 2011, 2:00:22 UTC - in response to Message 273.  

Bye Moo! This change is the final nail in Moo's coffin. The credits are not worth it. Milkyway and Collatz are much better. I've read a lot of people today who are dropping Moo. You never even got close to DNet on credits. Why don't you give it up and let someone who wants to get people to do the work.

MOO SUCKS!


Bye Dan. I am sure you will go to the new project that is dishing out one million credits per second and then you'll be happy even if you are not doing any more CPU/GPU cycles than you were before.

It is tedious that so many projects have a credit sh*t-fight thread (too many/too few) and people like to vent pointlessly (ha ha) about leaving when they could have moved on nicely. Project admins don't need extra sh*t.
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